Clegg and Burstow quiz Brown

6.56.00pm UTC (GMT +0000) Tue 24th Jun 2008

' . . why on earth is he playing politics with our liberties for a Bill that no one thinks is necessary, no one thinks will work in practice and everyone knows will never reach the statute book? . . '

[June 11] Nicholas Clegg (Party Leader; Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat): I would like to add my own expressions of sympathy and condolence to the family and friends of Privates Nathan Cuthbertson, Daniel Gamble and David Murray.

Does the Prime Minister accept that irrespective of whether this House has seven days or 30 days to approve the extension of the period of detention without charge, it is not possible to provide us with sufficient evidence and information to make that judgment without either making covert intelligence public or jeopardising the legal case against a terrorist suspect?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister; Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, Labour): The purpose of this coming before the House is for the Home Secretary to advise us that, in her view, there is an exceptional terrorist threat-a grave terrorist threat that either has occurred or is occurring-and that the need for action is urgent, but that it has not been possible to assemble the necessary evidence to lay charges within the 28 days. It will then be for the House to vote on the commencement order and agree that an exceptional terrorist incident has occurred. It is not the business of the House to interfere in the individual case, but it should be able to vote simply on whether an exceptional and grave terrorist threat has occurred. Given that the right hon. Gentleman and others have referred to the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 in discussing this issue, I would hope that he understands that this is exactly the same problem that has to be faced in respect of that Act.

Nicholas Clegg (Party Leader; Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat): Everyone knows that the Prime Minister's proposal will not become law-it will be blocked in the other place, the Equality and Human Rights Commission will challenge it in court and the European Court of Human Rights will declare it illegal-so why on earth is he playing politics with our liberties for a Bill that no one thinks is necessary, no one thinks will work in practice and everyone knows will never reach the statute book?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister; Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, Labour): The right hon. Gentleman says no one thinks the proposal is necessary, but has he looked at what police chief constables have said? Has he looked at the statements that have been made by those people who have dealt with terrorism? It is quite wrong to say that no one thinks it is necessary. Indeed, a Liberal Democrat candidate in Bristol did a survey of all his constituents: 74 per cent.- [Interruption.] Well, 74 per cent. said they were in favour and that "The complexity of potential terrorist threats means that the police will need the additional time." It is not only popular; it is necessary and right. There are many people who disagree with the right hon. Gentleman profoundly.

. . Paul Burstow (Chief Whip, Whips (Commons); Sutton & Cheam, Liberal Democrat): Every year 342,000 older people in the country are victims of abuse, including crimes such as intimidation, theft and assault. Tens of thousands of older people with dementia are routinely prescribed unlicensed drugs that keep them sedated and cut their lives short. Will the Prime Minister take action to close the loopholes in the law that allow the victims to go unprotected and the perpetrators to go unpunished, and will he meet me and a delegation to discuss what else needs to be done to tackle elder abuse?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister; Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, Labour): I shall be prepared to talk to the hon. Gentleman about this matter. We are about to propose an NHS constitution. Our aim is to guarantee rights to every person who is a patient of the NHS, and I believe that whatever he is revealing about what happens to elderly people can be dealt with as part of the rights in that constitution.